Horror-101

Toby Sells Interview

Toby Sells is a make up effects artist currently running his own shop out of Atlanta, Georgia. Many people may recognize him from his appearance on the popular Discovery Channel show Dirty Jobs, and his handiwork can be seen in such genre pictures as Phantasm II, The Signal, Dead Silence, and the upcoming Dance of the Dead. He was kind enough to talk to us about his past, present, and future in the industry filled with blood and guts.

Horror 101: How did you get into the special effects business?

Toby Sells: A lot of practice and a little bit of luck! The is story goes like this: I was always an artistic kid — not a “artist,” just had enough talent to draw a straight line with a ruler. I loved monsters and characters, so by the time I was three years old I was making heads and monsters out of play dough. When I was ten, in 1974 I saw Planet of the Apes on the CBS Friday night movies, and the switch was flipped on! There was a ten minute segment on how John Chambers did the make up FX for the apes. It gave me just enough basic information to start off with. My dad watched it with me. He was quite artistically talented and had a previous knowledge of molding and casting. The next day he took me to the local hobby store down town and bought me plaster, modeling clay, liquid latex, and a few sculpting tools. A week later I had this really bad gorilla mask, but it was a start. I continued making latex masks and then moved up to latex appliances and eventually foam latex appliances. I was totally in love with the stuff! Unfortunately there was not a lot of information out in the 70’s about the subject, but I did mange to get a book or two. Dick Smith’s Monster Make-Up Handbook was my Bible. Fangoria and Starlog both came out back then, also Richard Corson’s Stage Makeup, so there were a few tidbits of information on make up FX, but most of my education just came from trial and error, much more error.

In 1983 I went to a Fangoria Weekend of horrors to meet Tom Savini. I met Tom. He nice and encouraging, enough to give me Dick Smith’s phone number and address. That was when things changed for me. I started corresponding with Dick and took his ‘Dick Smith Advances Professional Make Up Course.’ Dick was basically responsible for getting me my first job in L A with Mark Shostrom on Phantasm II and Deep Star Six. He has been like a grandfather to me over the past twenty-five years. What a great man he is; I owe him big time!

H101: Was it difficult starting up your own effects shop and getting gigs?

TS: Yes and no. As with anything in life that is worth having, you have to work hard for it. Most of the hard work was over the past thirty-three years of learning this craft — a lot of trial and error, a lot of ridicule from people who thought I was crazy or a Satan worshiper or something crazy.

I moved to Atlanta in 2000 on the hopes of several rumors that I had been hearing about how Atlanta was going to be the ‘Hollywood of the south.’ Over the past eight years I see that it is slowly happening; not sure about it being the next Hollywood claim, but the amount of movies being shot here and on the east coast is growing. There is only one other professional make up FX artist in Atlanta, and that is my good friend Bill “Splat” Johnson. Bill is super talented, so I was up against some tough competition. Bill is a wonderful guy; he started throwing work my way as soon I moved here. I had worked on a movie called Freezer, a Brian Avenet-Bradley film, and was asked to do another by Brian. He was living here in Atlanta at the time, so that had a lot to do with the decision to come here also. It took a few years to build up a reputation here, but eventually things went my way. I had to do the ‘real job’ thing for a while and I was incredibly miserable, but I had to eat — I am a big boy!

My goal in the next five years is to be the biggest make up FX house on the east coast. I am pretty confident that we can do it. I have some very talented people working for me. If more and more productions start being shot here on the east coast, I think if we work hard enough we reach that goal. We are getting ready to move out of the basement shop in my home and set up shop in a 4,000 square foot warehouse. I have totally run out of room. I have molds, bodies, heads, and all kinds of equipment in storage. As far as just getting the jobs, about 80% or so is word of mouth and who-you-know kind of thing. Surprisingly I have gotten a few good paying gigs from people just finding me on the internet and a few from people who saw me on Dirty Jobs.

H101: Tell us a bit about Dance of the Dead, one of your latest projects. The zombie effects look great, judging by the trailer.

TS: Thank you, glad you liked the trailer. I was first approached by Gregg Bishop to help out on his first film, The Other Side, a couple of years ago, but was busy with another project. A year or so later he calls me up and said he wanted me to bid on Dance of the Dead, I did, and here we are. Dance was quite an interesting ride. We had a very small budget to work with. The project was much bigger than the budget, so it was a challenge for us from the beginning.

We had nights that we would have 80 to 100 extras as zombies. 20% of those were prosthetic make ups; the rest consisted of latex and foam latex masks and just make up, of course a lot of blood, dirt and goop. I had of crew of fifteen people, some with no or little experience, but we pulled it off. We had a pre-production time frame of three months to fabricate all the prosthetics, masks, bodies, and puppets. Most of the major roles were not cast until three or four weeks out from shooting, so all our primary make ups and puppets were made last minute. We literally had a month to do what we were originally were supposed to do in three months. I wanted to shoot a couple of people on a daily basis! [laughs] This was a first time horror film for a couple of the producers, and they had no idea that we can’t make all these things in a day or so. There were times that the schedule would change and we were the last ones to know. I heard “Oh, by the way, we are going to need Mitch’s head tomorrow. I know it isn’t scheduled until the last week of shooting, but we will need it tomorrow.” I thought they were joking at first, but they weren’t. We had eighteen hours to do what normally took sixty hours. My guys were up all night trying to get this stuff together while the rest of the cast and crew were nestled in there beds. We pulled it off and it works on screen, but what a crazy shoot. All in all it was one of the best shows I have done though. I love Gregg; he is a super guy, very talented and really easy to work with. I can’t wait to work with him again. I am not always happy with things that I have done. You know that artist thing; I should have done this, or shouldn’t have done that thing, but Dance of the Dead is one of those rarities. I was very pleased with outcome when I first saw it at the Atlanta Film Festival. Of course the editing and a little CGI helped make our work look even better. We didn’t have the budget for contact lenses so Gregg whitened out there eyes in post. He did a great job with fixing our boo-boos.

The movie itself is awesome. It’s kind of like Shawn of the Dead meets American Pie. It’s just a fun, entertaining movie, and I am very proud to have been the head, blood, and guts slinger. I got to work with some great people, and I had a kick ass crew making me look good. I was quoted in a Scars Magazine article that it was a “beautiful migraine.” The end product is what really matters, and I am very pleased with the movie. I also got a small cameo in the film. I was the Israeli Quickie Mart attendant. That was a lot of fun! Being in front of the camera is not something that I strive for, but when the opportunity comes, I will do it, as long as it is fun!

Can I just say thanks to some of my crew? Mark Ross, Blake Skaggs, Marissa McCrainey, Bunny Williams, Skippy Shoemaker, Andy Crossley, Ashley Adair and Puppet Chris Brown. The film will be out on October 14th; make sure you see it!

H101: What other upcoming genre projects are you working on?

TS: I am actually sitting on seven contracts right now, budget ranging from $1.5 million to $20 million. They all are gearing up to start. My biggest fear is that they will all start at once. If any two should be going at once, I will hire fifteen to twenty people from L A, some I have worked with, others I just love their work! Dick Smith told me years ago to surround my self with very talented people if I ever own my own shop. As uber great as Rick Baker is and the late Stan Winston was, they have some of the very best in the business working for them. I would love to have a shop full of Steve Wangs, Howard Bergers, and Kazuhiros! As far as some of the titles, I will be the make up fx designer on 1.8 Days, Depravity, The Desperate Ones, Something in the Night, Slums 13, Aurora, and a few more that I can’t mention now.

H101: You’ve worked on some mainstream movies like Stomp the Yard, Tyler Perry’s Meet the Browns and Dead Silence, as well as independent films like The Signal and Blood Car. What’s the difference from your point of view?

TS: Honestly, each film is a total different entity in itself. As far as the differences, it all depends on each individual group of people that are making the movie. I have worked on mainstream movies that were run so damn perfect and professional and then work an indie that is ran the same exact way. Of course there is just the opposite too; I have worked on a mainstream film or two that was just a complete nightmare. The biggest thing that affects us is the time and money. The second thing that can really affect us is the cooperation of the production team. Usually a lot of the independent production companies want Jurassic Park quality FX on a Toxic Avenger budget! I love The Toxic Avenger, folks at Troma, so don’t take that wrong. To do these make ups, heads, puppets and things it takes a lot of money. The materials are getting to be more and more expensive. The bigger budgeted films will give you more money, of course, but you still don’t always get the time you need, so you pull a lot of all-nighters sometimes.

H101: One of your earliest projects was a uncredited job on Phantasm II. How much did you contribute to the film? Was it intimidating working on the sequel to a classic?

TS: There were several of us that did not get screen credits on Phantasm II, which was the productions fault, not Mark Shostrom’s. Mark is a wonderful guy. He gave me my big break, and I learned a lot from him. My contribution to the film is actually very sentimental to me. I honestly thought my first professional day in L A would be sweeping Mark’s floors or making molds at best; I started out by Bob Kurtzman showing me a sketch of the guy with the sphere in his mouth. He then looks at me and says, “How long do you think it would take to sculpt this?” I think I said “A day or so.” Bob looks at me and grins and says, “You have until 5:00 today.” So I sculpted it and we molded it the next day. That was a big deal for me to sculpt on my first day in an L A shop. Kurtzman applied the make up on set. I assisted Bob applying the ear gag on the priest, Kenneth Tigar. It was for the scene where Father Meyers get his ear sliced off by one of the flying spheres. We actually laid him on a hospital gurney and the back drop of the hall was inverted horizontally, and I was on a ladder dropping this plastic ball by Kenneth’s ear. Bob had the ear attached with KY jelly and a monofilament attached to the foam latex ear. So every time I dropped it, Kurtzman would tug on the monofilament and the ear would fly off. I think I dropped that damn ball for at least an hour! It was a lot of fun. I loved working with Bob and Gregg. I was so happy for them and Howard when they started KNB, and look at them now.

As far as working on a sequel, I was a big fan of the first Phantasm. It definitely had its nostalgic value working on Phantasm II, but honestly, I was just an FX grunt. I had very little if any creative control; that was up to Mark and Greg Nicotero. Nevertheless, it was very cool to work on Phantasm II.

H101: Have you ever worked on a film that you knew would turn out awful?

TS: Yes, one was a movie being produced here in the Atlanta area. The director was eventually fired. He was nice guy and all but had very little experience and would not take advice from people who had been in the business for a while. It came back to bite him in the butt. The script was kind of cool, but all in all it was a train wreck waiting to happen. There have been a few of those. I have more movies like that, which I have not listed on the IMDb, than the ones that I have listed. A lot of them were earlier films. I won’t mention any names though; some of the directors have went on to some big things. Never burn bridges! There also have been some others that were good films, but the stuff that I did didn’t really work. I won‘t mention those either. That is all part of the learning and paying your dues part!

H101: What’s the longest or hardest you’ve ever worked on one project?

TS: Dance of the Dead was probably the hardest, because we wanted so badly to make it all work on no time and a less than shoestring budget. We basically did that movie for free, no profit. They cut our budget at the end. The longest was the film I just mentioned before when the director got fired. We actually had a descent budget and some time.

H101: How did your appearance on Dirty Jobs come about?

TS: I met Mike Rowe in a bar, and he just stopped me and said, “You are a handsome man. Want to be on Dirty Jobs?” [laughs] Just kidding. I hope Mike reads this; he is a really great guy. I had an intern who came in the shop one day talking about the show. I had not seen it at the time. I watched it that night or the next night and thought it was cool. So the next time my intern was back in the shop, I was joking around about how cool it would be if they did a show on us. Randal, my intern, goes home and emails Dirty Jobs, and in a few days they were on the phone telling me they wanted to do the show with me. It was a great experience. Those TV guys bust there asses to get all this footage in one day. The whole Dirty Jobs crew was amazing. Dave Barksey, the director, was super cool to work with. He just let me and Mike bicker and bitch. I had people I have not talked to since I graduated high school in1982 calling me. That was cool; it was great to speak to my mom. Just kidding!

H101: You’ve played bit roles in a few movies. Are you interested in perusing an acting career?

TS: Like a lot of folks in the film industry, I think at one time or another we all wanted to be in front of the camera. I made a lot of Super 8 horror and sci-fi films as a kid, but I always gravitated towards the make up FX. I enjoy acting a lot. It’s fun and somewhat challenging at times, but I can’t imagine chasing the auditions all the time, and I hate waiting tables! If a small role is tossed my way and I like it and it fits in the schedule, I am all for it. I would like to try a bigger role just once though, but my heart is in doing make up FX. But if any of you directors out there need a fat Italian or an Arabic looking dude, call me!

H101: Have you ever considered directing?

TS: Yes, I was actually hired to direct on one of the films that ended up loosing its funding. I have written a couple of screenplays and several shorts that I want to eventually produce. The two features are both in the horror genre; the shorts are mostly comedies. I have done some second unit directing for some of the gags that we have done, but that is a lot different than being the director. Sadly, I see a lot of people fail at directing, especially in the indie film community, so if the opportunity presents itself I will do what I can to be prepared. That’s not a guarantee that I won’t fail either. I try to watch and learn every time I am on set. I also try to read and educate myself on the subject. The bottom line is if it happens I will try my best and wait for the outcome. I do have a lot of respect for directors; what a load to carry around!

H101: Who is a director or writer whose ideas you would like to bring to life?

TS: I would absolutely love to design make up FX for a James Wan movie. Guillermo del Toro is also one. Tim Burton would be another; he has such a distinctive look to his films that would be a challenge to try and hit the mark on one of his projects. I would like to work with Steven Hentges again. We just did a film last winter with him called Hunger; I think he is a talented director. Of course I can’t mention Gregg Bishop enough. It’s fun to work with different directors. They all have there own style, and that sometimes bleeds over to our department.

H101: What’s your favorite horror movie?

TS: Oh man, I hate that question. No matter what you say, you piss off some fan boy. For the record, I am a big monster geek fan boy though! Although it’s not a horror movie, my all time favorite make up FX movie is Planet of the Apes and the four sequels that followed. I loved the remake of Dawn of the Dead. Dave Anderson, the make up FX designer on it, is a super talented artist. I thought the zombies were the best, hands down. I really like a lot of horror films. To call one my favorite wouldn’t be fair to the others that I like. Like I said, I am a big monster geek, so for me I may absolutely love The Ruins, for example, and I say that to some of guys in the shop and they roll their eyes. But here are a few: Rick Baker’s An American Werewolf in London, Fun House, and It’s Alive; Stan Winston’s The Entity, Interview with the Vampire, and The Island of Dr. Moreau; John Carpenters The Thing; The Howling; Hellraiser; The Hunger — Dick Smith old age on David Bowie was just phenomenal; and From Dusk till Dawn, just throw some out there. There are some really good horror films out there. I will admit, if the story is just ok and the make up FX are good, to me it’s a good film. That’s just me.

H101: Do you have any closing remarks for the readers of Horror-101. com?

TS: Actually I do. First of all, thanks for listening to me rant on. Over the past couple of years I have started receiving fan mail and emails. To me, it is the strangest thing. I do not consider myself being anyone who deserves fans, but I truly do appreciate it, so thanks so much to anyone who sent me mail. I am not worthy of that, but truly thank you!

One of the biggest questions I get asked is how to get into make up FX. To anyone that wants to do make up FX as a profession, my honest opinion is to take the Dick Smith Course. Don’t go to the make up schools; take that money and buy the course and supplies, set up a few benches and bust your butt for a few years, and I promise you will be much better off. I hate to see young folks get ripped off by all these schools.

If you want to check out what me and my band of silicone slingers are up to you can check us out on My Space at myspace.com/monstermaker181. We are working on a new website at the moment. We had our name domain ripped off by an internet scam company, so our new web address will more than likely be tobysellsfx.net. Just Google my name; it will be on there when the new site is up. So, I guess that’s about it. Thanks for the interview. It has been a pleasure, and again thanks to everyone who has mailed me and watched the Dirty Jobs episode! Thanks Horror 101!

H101: Thanks a lot for answering. We appreciate your time.

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